Victor Vasilyevich Sinyavskiy

The editorial staff of «Planet of Korolev» portal starts publishing series of materials, devoted to Moon's exploration.

This series of materials is started by RSC «Energia» n.a. S.P. Korolev scientific consultant, Doctor of Engineering Science, the professor of Moscow State Technical University n.a. N.E. Baumann, Victor Vasilyevich Sinyavskiy, one of the authors of «The Moon is a step to Solar system exploration technologies» book, who tells about his own image of Moon's research and exploration necessity, feasible directions and technologies of human's expansion there in future.


The Moon is a step to Solar system exploration technologies

The year 2014th is memorable for significant events in the history of the Moon – the only natural satellite of the Earth planet - exploration by the mankind:

- 55 years ago (on September, 13 1959 ) the soviet automatic interplanetary station (AIS) «Moon-2» was launched to the Moon – it was the first space vehicle reached its surface;
- 55 years ago (on October 7, 1959 ) «Moon-3» (USSR) AIS was launched to the Moon, «Moon-3» became the first space vehicle, which transferred images of hidden side of the Moon to the Earth;
- 45 years ago (on July, 21 1969) there was carried out the first landing of a human –the «Appollo-11» vehicle commander Neil Armstrong (USA) – to the lunar surface.

The USSR lunar program, which made provisions for human landing on the Moon, and was fulfilled in the end of 1960th – beginning of 1970th with the RSC «Energia» (OKB-1 before 1966th, TsKBEM before 1974th) leading role included activities on the Н1 launch vehicle and space facilities of lunar manned complex. The prototype item tests of lunar landing vehicle (the item was named Т2К) and D type upper stage were successfully performed on the low-earth orbit. However the launch-vehicle Н1 was followed by failures. In May 1974th the program was eventually stopped.
After stunning successes of mankind with regard to Moon's explorations, carried out with the use of space-rocket technique in 50th – 70th years of the past century, it can be noted that interest in it decreased.
Nowadays there appeared a new motivation to continue and extend Moon's explorations, and there began to revive an interest of various scientific, industrial and business circles to carrying out scientific and industrial activity on it.
Considering that active representatives of all these circles, and also studying youth receive the information on the given theme particularly from the Internet, the editorial staff of «Planet of Korolev» portal starts publishing series of materials, devoted to Moon's exploration.
This series of materials is started by RSC «Energia» n.a. S.P. Korolev scientific consultant, Doctor of Engineering Science, the professor of Moscow State Technical University n.a. N.E. Baumann, Victor Vasilyevich Sinyavskiy, one of the authors of «The Moon is a step to Solar system exploration technologies» book, who tells about his own image of Moon's research and exploration necessity, feasible directions and technologies of human's expansion there in future.

O.N. Volkov: Today the "Korolev Planet" Internet portal has as a visitor Victor Vasilyevich Sinyavsky, a scientific adviser of the Rocket and Space Corporation Energina, Doctor of Engineering Science, Professor of the MVTU n.a. N.E. Bauman.
Victor Vasilyevich, Good day!
V.V. Sinyavsky: Good day! Good!

O.N. Volkov: The subject of our conversation with You today is "the Moon as an object and base to carry out research and exploration". You are one of initiators and authors of the book "The Moon is a step to Solar system exploration technologies". How did the idea to write this book come on? Who participated in it? Who are its authors?
V.V. Sinyavsky: Yes, that's true, a group at RSC Energia has developed and issued this book "The Moon is a step to Solar system exploration technologies". Staff members of RSC Energia - Boris Ivanovich Sotnikov, Gennady Alexeyevich Sizentsev, Andrey Labykin and me - were pacesetters of the book composition. The idea to write the book arose in connection with some activities carried out by our pacesetters. One can say, that these activities included studying the relation between the space ecology and the Earth ecology. We reached a conclusion and published scientific papers in the "Izvestiya of Academy of Sciences" that to overcome ecological crisis situations on Earth, Moon exploration is required. Understanding the strategic objective of Moon exploration, we decided to write a book. The objective is reflected in the book heading. We compiled the book content and decided that leading scientists and specialists of our country should take part in the book composition. Therefore, we got eight organizations to take part in the book composition: leading enterprises of the rocket-and-space industry. Among them are, first of all, S.P. Korolev RSC Energia, M.V. Keldysh Center, NPO n.a S.A. Lavochkin, GMDEB n.a. V.P. Barmin, TsNIIMash, as well as three Institutes of the Russian Academy of Science, pertinent to astronomy and planet exploration. We addressed the leading specialists of these organizations with a proposal to write respective sections. V.A. Lopota, the president of the Corporation, general designer, RAS corresponding member, and V.P. Legostayev, the first deputy general designer on research, RAS member, supported us. They helped us to prepare and write a call to the managers of the organizations, in which we asked them to give a commission to their leading specialists. This book includes 60 authors, and all of them are leading scientists or specialists. Heavy workload fell to our share, when a bulk of materials was received. All materials were of a high quality, however there were repeats, sometimes lengthiness, sometimes a meaning content was inadequate ... In fact, we had to rewrite all in a common format. There were even fanny cases, when supposing a leading specialist, Doctor of Physics and Mathematics, head of a laboratory says that he cannot offer his opinion in writing because his director thinks otherwise. We had to study transactions of both the Director and the Doctor of Physics and Mathematics, as well as other foreign publications and to write themselves sections on subjects where we were not even specialists. It was not compilation, it was remaking...
The book was written. It took about four years for all work from the idea to the book issue. It was issued by the 50-anniversary jubilee of the first in the world space flight of the Vostok manned spacecraft with an Earth representative, our fellow-countryman Yuri Alexeyevich Gagarin. After the heading the book contains a dedication to Yuri Alexeyevich Gagarin. The quality of the book production is rather good: color illustration, presentation with a view to non-specialist audiences. All materials are presented correctly scientifically and technologically. When writing the book, we set a goal to make it understandable to, at least, engineers. However, it turned out that the book is bought by parents for students. In our opinion, students read it with pleasure.

O.N. Volkov: Thank You very much, Victor Vasilyevich. Indeed, this book is very good, and no doubt it should be read. Could You, please, answer questions to give initial visions of the Moon value as an object and base for Solar system research and exploration. At present, beginning since the 1990s, scientists know many things on celestial bodies at distances of hundreds and thousands of light years from the Earth, discuss actively the problem of Mars studying and exploration. While it seems that the Moon is slightly forgotten. Therefore, the question arises, whether the Moon has any secrets remained or modern scientists know everything about this space object?
V.V. Sinyavsky: I'll answer your question. In principle, scientists cannot know everything. Science and scientists shall study everything, and this process is, generally speaking, never ending. There can be only study phases. Moreover, I can't remember where I read, however, I read that sociological studies were conducted, who most often says "don't know". So, scientists most often say "don't know", while former "mediocre students" most seldom say "don't know". What do You mean saying: "everything is known" or "is unknown" about the Moon? Certainly, much is unknown. I should say so: the Moon origin is unknown.
Two hypotheses exist, directly contrary. One of the hypotheses lies in the fact that the Moon originated from a collision of the Earth with a large celestial body of about the Mars size. A piece of the Earth's mantle slopped out, gradually these droplets or pieces gathered and the Moon was formed. Some facts suggest such origin of the Moon. However, another hypothesis exists. A variety of facts suggest that the Earth was formed 4.5 thousand million years ago simultaneously with the Moon as a double planet, – as double stars are formed from the primary substance. Therefore, even such question as the Moon origin makes a call for continuation of its studying and research. We have no information on the Moon core. Many discoveries are made, we have got to know much about the Moon, however, much remains unknown – some anomalies of the magnetic field, some anomalies of the gravity.

O.N. Volkov: Victor Vasilyevich, thank You very much. My next question is the following. If we generalize the results which were received by the US party and our team, including our information on the Moon, why is it of interest for us, including industrial application?
V.V. Sinyavsky: New information about the Moon was provided both by manned spacecraft and unmanned vehicles. Apparently, unmanned vehicles have contributed more. Even in the period from late in the 1960s – early in the 1970s, astronauts bored moon soil to a depth of 3 m, and our unmanned station, which was developed at NPO n.a. S.A. Lavochkin, using actual stock from RSC Energis, bored the moon soil to a depth of 2 m. In all, about 400 kg of moon soil was delivered to the earth. The value of these materials is so much as high for scientists that they could not be sold – they could be only distributed. The Americans as well as we distributed the materials virtually among all countries of the world: laboratories, universities, researchers. And what important knowledge has been gained! First of all, about the Moon surface.
When the work started on the lunnik, the designers came to Sergey Pavlovich Korolev and said: "We cannot design a descent vehicle, we do not know the soil type. Should it be hard, or should it be dust, then the vehicle will sink". The anticipation of Sergey Pavlovich Korolev was the following – he wrote: "the moon soil is hard, and realize your design accordingly". Everything turned out to be so. That is the moon soil resembles wet sand, one might walk over it, even trolley-rovers can ride. Regolith was discovered. There were no new chemical elements there. All chemical elements are similar to those on the Earth. However, the state of the environment near the Moon surface differs: solar and galactic radiation, bombardment by meteors of high flow density, – on the surface everything is mixed, flies up and then settles. An entirely new layer –regolith – is formed. There is no such layer on the Earth, given the same composition of chemical elements. In addition, particles from the solar wind were adsorbed on the Moon surface. Then, everything was mixed, and new minerals in the Moon surface layer were formed to a depth of about 10 m. Deeper, basaltic structures, a core were mainly detected. Unknown chemical elements were not detected.

O.N. Volkov: If we have some results of research of the 20-th century, then, what tasks are set before the people of Earth in Moon exploration in the 21-st century?
V.V. Sinyavsky: Well, You are right saying "Moon exploration". Certainly, without research no exploration will be possible. The research shall be continued, however, the objective will be Moon exploration. What does Moon exploration mean? What does it assumes? I'll try to read out what our veterans of cosmonautics – its pioneers – said about Moon exploration as the most important stage of space industrialization. K.E. Tsiolkovsky said, bearing in mind space industrialization: "...its (space) transformation to a new life environment and production activities of people". And Sergey Pavlovich Korolev anticipated: "...the use of the Moon and moon space in the infrastructure of the earth space technology". It includes opinions on the use of moon resources, on supporting of planetary expeditions and etc. Academician V.P. Glushko expressed similar ideas, believing that a base should be built on the Moon in order to use the Moon for Earth exploration. By the way, he set an objective: development of an appropriate infrastructure, power system, etc.
A.F. Taylor, the "father" of H-bomb in the USA, said literally the following (his catch phrase): "the Moon is the Persian Gulf of the 21st century, and we, the people of Earth, are very lucky that we have the Moon". That is not the case that the Moon stabilizes the terrestrial axis of rotation, rather the case is that the solar wind does not reach the Earth thanks to the Earth's magnetic field. Nonetheless, the solar wind contains solar fuel – helium-3 isotope. It is one of components of the high-efficiency thermonuclear fusion. On the Moon the particles from the solar wind, including helium-3, are adsorbed and mixed. Therefore, regolith contains a rather measurable concentration of this solar fuel, helium-3, in order to arrange its commercial production there. On the Moon helium-3 is distributed in regolith. It is not very hard to separate it. Regolith should be heated to 700-900°С, then, all gases should be separated, and isotopes of helium-3 and helium-4 should be separated. What is thermonuclear fuel helium-3 like? First of all, it is a substance for thermonuclear fusion, which is environmentally safe. In fusion reactors running on common heavy hydrogen and tritium, which are considered now as the basis of future power engineering, the first wall, as the most thermally stressed one, shall be changed every 3 years. When using helium-3, its service life will be 20 and 30 years. Helium-3 is non-radioactive, i.e. radiation hazard of energy generation is very low.
It is possible to generate power on the Moon and then to transfer it to the Earth using UHF or laser. We have to overcome the energy crisis, which is a cause of the environmental crisis at present as well. First of all, it is global warming. Now, truly speaking, there exists an opposing opinion. Well, it makes no matter. That is, we need to replace hydrocarbon power engineering by more environmentally safe energy resources. Fusion energy is ecologically safe in all aspects. In addition, on burning coal, petroleum, etc., the temperature reaches about 3000°С, i.e. it is the top temperature of the thermodynamic cycle, corresponding to the conversion efficiency. The fusion reaction with helium-3 proceeds at a temperature of hundred million degrees. Besides, generation of charged particles occurs there – it is a totally new energy source at such temperatures with the efficiency close to 100%. That is, power engineering with the use of helium-3 is the power engineering of the future, in the light of its positive unique features.

One more possibility exists. We have need of substitution of hydrocarbon power engineering. And this is, first of all, the use of solar energy. Using concentrators-reflectors or photovoltaic converters, electric energy is generated and then it is transferred to the Earth with the use of UHF or laser. However, large structures are required for this process implementation because large areas for solar energy gathering are required. To build such large structures on earth and to deliver them to the Moon, a great number of launches of launch-vehicles will be required. Moreover, the earth gravity is such that creation of large structures is simply impossible. However, it can be realized on the Moon. The Moon gravity is six times lower than on earth. Such structures are simple-to build on the Moon, having mined metals. And all of them are available there, like on earth. Having created large structures of moon materials on the Moon or at circumlunar Lagrangian points, we shall take care of the environment of our Earth. We shall not launch a great number of rockets to build these structures.
And finally, the climatic control on earth. Gennady Alexeyevich Sizentsev has a proposal, some concept, how to control the climate on earth, by negating the effect of a rise or fall in temperature. To do it, one shall create a photogravitation system at a Lagrangian point between the Earth and Sun. However, to make this heavy system "stand still" there, hundred thousand tons of soil, ballast, are required. Why should we deliver this ballast, sand from earth? It is preferable to deliver it from the Moon!
And what can we say about space missions? The Moon is the best place for creation of a spaceport. As for Martian missions or Martian flights, then on starting from the Moon energy consumption is 20 less than on starting from earth. A kickshaw, however ... And there is a variety of advantages in addition.
A moon research observatory will be unique as well. In fact, the dark side of the Moon is protected against all radio interference. Therefore, unique astronomical and astrophysical instruments can be installed there. It is suggested that a telescope, radio telescope can be constructed on the back side of the Moon, which will really see planets near other stars. Far from the shadow effect, which is used now to detect planets, that is by a change of stellar luminosity (it decreases slightly), the telescope will allow us really to see, measure and etc. Generally, it is a very interesting, wanted task, of course, which exists. The Moon properties are unique for studying. Among them are high temperatures, low temperatures, lack of radiation, high vacuum, where a variety of experiments can be conducted.

O.N. Volkov: Victor Vasilyevich, thank you very much. The question is: You spoke of controlled thermonuclear reaction, however, it is just not on so far. Do I get it right, that the Moon can become precisely the place (laboratory), where it can be developed for the first time?
V.V. Sinyavsky: I do not think so. This technology is quite complex and unique simultaneously. And most likely, it should be developed on earth.
The technology can be developed on earth, however, the power plant should be constructed in space with appropriate energy transfer to earth.
Yet, when speaking, for example, about a thermonuclear rocket engine with unique high thrust and extremely high impulse performance for flights to the boundary of the solar system, then, of course, such engine shall be developed. I think, that it will possess needed properties only due to the use of helium-3.

O.N. Volkov: Victor Vasilyevich, my next questions are: What phases, in your opinion, can be defined in Moon research and exploration in the 21st century? Could You, please, outline in brief these phases, tell about the duration of each phase? What engineering problems should be solved at each phase, that is to predict the spread of Moon exploration? When can it be started? Though, we have not started the work yet.
V.V. Sinyavsky: Guess what, unfortunately, Russia has no national strategy relating to Moon exploration, and here we have some proposals for it (notice of the editorial board: V.V. Sinyavsky shows the book "The Moon is a step to Solar system exploration technologies"). It is presented as an option.

O.N. Volkov: That is, it is not a national strategy yet?
V.V. Sinyavsky: It is not a national strategy, it is a proposal of specialists from leading organizations of the rocket-and-space branch, specialists and scientists. I should say the following.
Definition of the time limits is a difficult matter, of course, however, I'll try to answer. The first phase, I believe, covers Moon research with the use of unmanned vehicles to define places of landing and capabilities for activities with preparation of proposals on further steps. Among them are the first manned flights, fly around, landing to the Moon surface, that is, creation of the first base of the type similar to our first module on the ISS or the Mir station. The objective is creation of comfort conditions for activities of cosmonauts on the Moon. It is the very first phase. According to our estimates, this phase will take about 10 and more likely 15 years after taking a decision.
The second phase includes the building of a base, where from 3 to 6 cosmonauts could work long enough, more probably on a rotational basis (for about one year). They will work, create test facilities of technological, production type on mineral extraction (may be, only experimental ones), however, gradually expanding activities. I have a picture of gradual building of such moon base. If you look here (notice of the editorial board: informant shows the figure), you will see actually our module "Zarya", with which the ISS construction started. Modules are delivered to appropriate trenches. They are docked between each other and filled in, thus, gradually building up the base of the appropriate infrastructure.

O.N. Volkov: And what is the duration of this moon base construction?
V.V. Sinyavsky: According to our estimates, creation of this base will not take much time. If the first phase is realized, astronauts and cosmonauts visited the base, they can live there. A moon transportation system is developed. It is intended that in addition to transport vehicles, we have a takeoff and landing complex, new reusable tugs, including electric propulsion ones. By our estimates, construction of the moon base will not take too much time, taking into account the great experience of constructing large-size in-orbit stations, where a life support system is installed. All of this can be used. After the first phase five years will be required, i.e. the second phase is not so long.
And now, the third phase is approaching – it includes base enlargement, development of a closed-loop system of life support, industrial and technological structure, building of a spaceport, power engineering facilities (at first, on solar arrays, then, on the basis of nuclear power plants), production of moon propellant to fill up the takeoff and landing complex. It will take (from the start of building) 30-40 years.
At last, the fourth phase comes. It implies a transition to a complex production and self-sufficiency of this moon base, and more truly, to a settled colony, where tens and perhaps hundreds of researchers, scientists, engineers will work. By our estimates, it will happen in 50-70 years after a decision making.

O.N. Volkov: And what will the cargo traffic be at each stage of the Earth – Moon transport system? We may refer to a comparison with the available cargo traffic "Earth – ISS" rather than to absolute values.
V.V. Sinyavsky: At present, the cargo traffic to the ISS is 10-15 tons per year, except for completion of the station construction (the new module can weigh 17 tons). Generally, the cargo traffic is from 10 to 15 tons. It includes cargoes of our manned spacecraft ("Progress" vehicles) and Japanese cargo vehicles, as well as European vehicles, etc. To construct the base, the cargo traffic over 3-5 years will make up 700-800 tons from the Earth. If this base becomes operating, about 400-500 tons per year shall be delivered there from the Earth. The case is that 30 tons shall be delivered to a circumlunar orbit, so that 10 tons were placed on the Moon surface. Such cargo traffic is rather high. In my opinion, it is an expensive process. Without development of a new transport system, which will include a reusable nuclear electric propulsion tug, it is unlikely that such system will be developed. The tug would make possible to decrease the number of launches of heavy launch-vehicles by 4-7 times and to increase the mass of indivisible cargo. A unit cost of delivery of one kilogram of cargo to the Moon surface would decrease by about 2-4 times.

O.N. Volkov: At the beginning of our talk You mentioned environmental problems on earth, a shortage of natural hydrocarbon resources. How can the resources available on the Moon, for example, helium-3, be used on earth? What are the ways of delivery of moon resources to the Earth?
V.V. Sinyavsky: First of all, we'll begin with natural economic solar power. On earth to gather this power, large areas will be required. Should the Sahara Desert be covered with high-efficient photovoltaic converters, the problems are concerned with the availability of clouds, atmospheric attenuation, etc. These effects can be ignored on the Moon. Therefore, the efficiency of the incident sunlight is prominently higher on the Moon. On the Moon the day lasts 14 earth days and the night lasts 14 earth days. Some kind of accumulators, etc. will be required. Substantial improvement of the earth energy supply service through the use of solar energy is possible, if large-size solar power stations, covering many kilometers, tens of kilometers, are built, however using moon resources.

O.N. Volkov: Using moon resources on the Moon?
V.V. Sinyavsky: Yes, they are built on the Moon and delivered, let us say, to one of the neutral (Lagrangian) points. And from there the structures can be transported to required orbits. They can be different – of a geostationary type and higher ones. There is a lot of silica on the Moon. Though it has a low efficiency factor, it can be used to produce photo converters for a solar power station delivering power to the Earth.
As for the above-mentioned moon helium-3, its resource base will suffice for thousands, many thousands of years, and the earth will be provided with power resources, environmentally safe therewith. Besides, development of solar reflectors is possible, including illumination, heating. And, finally, there is a very important question relating to power engineering. I have already touched it slightly. It concerns the fact that we can regulate the solar thermal energy supply to the earth surface: we can increase and decrease it through shadowing by the complex patrolling in near-earth space, or using reflectors, thus producing diffused light. In principle, this system makes possible generation of, in some way, an appropriate environment of Mars or Venus where the temperature is 400°C or higher now, continuous clouds, etc.

O.N. Volkov: Victor Vasilyevich, at present, hydrocarbon production on earth takes place in severe environmental conditions; resource development is often performed by the rotation method. According to your words, it is possible to transfer commercial production, electric energy generation from the Earth to the Moon, thus creating a biosphere reserve on earth, where people would return after hard work on energy generation. They would return to the Earth, which is not disfeatured by mining operations. Is it possible?
V.V. Sinyavsky: Of course, it is possible and wanted. Look at the pictures of our Earth from space. It is a beauty! They, who will work on the Moon, shall pass adaptation. At first, adaptation to conditions of operation, creative work, living, activities on the Moon, and then, when the shift is completed, they shall pass adaptation to ground conditions. And that takes some doing. Therefore, if we speak of a future-oriented base on the Moon, if we speak of a settlement, then a rehabilitation, adaptation center shall be developed. Psychologically, a man, living in spacesuits, cabins, is in need of seeing greenery, hearing the voice of the stream, song of birds. For this book a professional architect has developed a project, a concept of a settlement for 300-500 persons. This is how this settlement looks like (a figure is presented – notice of the editorial board). Here, You can see production facilities, and this is a rehabilitation center. Everything is envisaged there: there you can see a water surface, greenery, birds will appear. Moreover, the architect proposed to build a churchlet. Anything's possible, seclude oneself, bethink oneself, pray for relatives, who are far away and emotionally involved in the process. This proposal was made by the professional architect on the basis of the thesis, which he defended, taking advice of cosmonauts, our specialists. During thesis defence, after the report, the Higher Attestation Commission stood up and applauded him for this project. This diploma student, this student used the possibility of consultation with specialists, cosmonauts, however, he did a radically new project. Everything is envisaged in the project: everything, what is required for life, creative work, safety, etc., including a project of a rehabilitation center, which I like.

O.N. Volkov: Victor Vasilyevich, once You mentioned students, I should like to ask, what Higher Educational Institutions train specialists and in what specialties in our country, who will have to solve the Moon research and exploration tasks in the 21th century?
V.V. Sinyavsky: If the word "train" is applicable to the Moon, it is too early to speak of it. There exist courses associated with space technology, including advance space technology, development of life support systems, biological systems, bacteria investigations, etc. There is all of this. To support advanced, commercial, technological exploration of the Moon, specialists of all or almost all professions will be required. It's hard to say, what specialty will not be required. I told You, a designer will be required. And somebody, who will keep track of birds, will be required as well. Not to mention geologists, engineers, robot technicians. And in fact, everything shall be realized with the use of robotic technology, practically everything. The systems shall be adaptable to space conditions. I give lessons at MVTU n.a. N.E. Bauman. I give lectures to the student of the fifth course on the theme "Space Complexes". In fact, these lectures concern the theme "Advanced space complexes". I report on manned cosmonautics, on available systems, complexes, which will be required to support a flight to the Moon and Mars, on research complexes to explore far planets of the Solar system. However, it is not training, it is rather getting to know. As homework the students of the fifth course receive a creative project from me instead of passing pretests. They do it with pleasure, it is very interesting. Even more so, they find out something new, and sometimes find mistakes, which I made sometimes. There are four positions. The first position – he shall study the problem. Well, let us say Moon exploration. He shall study; what, what for and how. The second position – he shall speak as an opponent, critic of the implemented work: the proposal concerns solar arrays, however there is a night there, which lasts for 14 earth days! Let us use nuclear power plants. The third position – it is obligatory for a creative project – to propose something own. In this case, it may be an engineering item, even a policy item, followed by a substantiation. The fourth position – to assess innovation of one's project. And You know, in the process of defence, each of participants shall make a slide. Everybody can put questions, and the students do not hesitate putting questions. The defence takes about six-eight hours instead of two academic hours, it is so far as interesting.

O.N. Volkov: Victor Vasilyevich, the technological breakthrough, which our country managed to make in the 1960s, was associated with the genius of Sergey Pavlovich Korolev – the founder of our organization. OKB-1, now RSC Energia, consolidated the efforts of a great number of organizations to solve the task of space exploration. Moon exploration is no less formidable task, than the task that was solved in the 1960s of the 20th century. How do You think, whether it is expedient to make RSC Energia the head organization on development of the Moon exploration task. What technical university can be the leading one in teaching, preparation of a "forge" of intellectual young specialists, who could practically solve the Moon exploration task.
V.V. Sinyavsky: I think the time has come. I think it is the case. We'd really appreciate, if RSC Energia becomes the head organization, considering the fact that first, it is the pioneer in cosmonautics, secondly, now it is the leading organization in manned cosmonautics, and thirdly, the plans of the enterprise envisage manned cosmonautics development. Even as we speak we shall think of the need for specialists, who will capable of designing, constructing, testing and operating entirely new systems, new technologies, which will be required. I think that already now it is expedient to begin training, perhaps to arrange some teaching courses relating to specific conditions of operation of equipment, robotic facilities on the Moon, different adaptive systems. And as for the technologies of production on the Moon. In fact, on earth, for example, iron and aluminium are extracted by different technologies.
Two requirements for technologies on the Moon are:
1. Minimum or zero delivery of consumables from the Earth. Otherwise, the products with the use of moon production will be substantially more costly than gold;
2. To organize production of all needed components in one cycle: gas, metal and, let us say, silica.
Such cycle is an entirely new technology. Moreover, the complexes shall be integrated. There shall be energy-generating complexes. Let us assume that the first production cycle of processing consists in generation of thermal, electrical, atomic energy. And nearby mining facilities are located. All of it is integrated in a single complex. Realization shall be of a modular-type, i.e. the complex is assembled of modules. There is no suitable space enough on the Moon. The sizes of level grounds are 300 x 300 m. That is, when constructing some complex, without laying a road later on, it is more simply to disassemble the modules, to transfer the robotic systems to a new place pre-investigated by geologists and to assemble them again and to adjust the production. These are completely new procedures. One shall interest the students, and they shall be given graduation projects, where they can fantasize whatever they like. However, their fantasy shall relate to design and development relying on the selection and materials, as well as the laws of physics and other things. I believe that it is advisable that the management of our enterprise addressed MVTU n.a. N.E. Bauman or jointly with the management of MVTU (MVTU is the leading Institute of the rocket-and-space technology, trains specialists for many enterprises of the rocket-and-space technology) to bring up a proposal at a state level to include a course of training of "super-future" specialties, perhaps, optionally.

O.N. Volkov: And one more quick question. Our country is unordinary, many decisions are taken by the top figure of our state. How do You think whether it is expedient to form a Council on Space under the President of Russia to develop a conceptual platform for commercial space exploration?
V.V. Sinyavsky: Well, I believe it is probably expedient. However, the President shall take a decision apparently. While formation of appropriate working groups of specialists of different profiles is a matter of moment. The working group shall include specialists in rocket-and-space technology, international specialists should be included. What is the base on the Moon? What standards will be in force there? Will they be Russian, American Japanese? Nothing of the kind, international standards shall be in force there for everything. When the International Space Station was being developed, a wish was formulated that the ISS should be a prototype of a future lifestyle of people of earth, and all the more on the Moon. It shall be another lifestyle of people of earth – no states, no nations. I can't answer this question, however, the fact that the Moon development strategy is needed is the first factor. Secondly, we are already late. And thirdly, the Moon shall be explored immediately, taking into account an ecological aspect.

O.N. Volkov: Victor Vasilyevich, thank you very much for your interesting speaking. I hope we shall proceed with our intercourse on other subjects.
V.V. Sinyavsky: Thank you, all the best to everybody!

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